Torture is bad
Just writing that makes me feel like Mr Mackey in South Park saying "Drugs are bad, mmkay". There seems something wishy-washy, dripping-wet liberal and almost naive about thinking that torturing other human beings is wrong; I don't know how it came to be that there ever was debate about torture being a bad thing - perhaps I wrongly felt that, as a bleeding-heart woolly handwringer, it was one of those untouchable absolutes in the moral maze, like racism or murder, that was just a bad thing.
And yet, and yet... it almost gets to the point where you start questioning yourself about these things - where you think you're treading on a giant bear trap if you so much as intimate that torturing people is not only morally wrong, but practically useless. Whether it's the influence of programmes like 24, or a heritage of Hollywood that goes back way beyond Jack Bauer and chums (as we'll see in a minute), I don't know; but it's in people's minds nowadays that torturing people is sometimes or even all the time the right thing to do.
Look at this example from popular culture. I've only been able to find the Spanish dubbed version but the pictures speak for themselves. The tough grizzled cop played by Clint Eastwood needs to get information from the evil CND-badge-wearing killer played by Andy Robinson - a young girl's life is at stake. So how does he go about getting it? By torture, of course, with the victim all the time bleating about his so-called 'rights', then using the liberal system to get away with his crimes and having the evidence obtained under torture deemed inadmissable.
That's the scenario we're constantly meant to imagine - the 'ticking bomb' idea. And it's one that George W Bush is happy to create in his memoirs by saying that terror attacks were thwarted thanks to evidence obtained under torture - one that is happily chirped and repeated. What if torturing someone could save a life? Well, what if it couldn't? What if the vast majority of torture doesn't save lives, but actively ruins lives? What if torturing people leads to resentment and hatred that will cost many more lives? What if torturing people is not only morally wrong, but it also doesn't work, and makes the situation worse by engendering hostility among those people you are supposedly trying to 'help'? What if torturing people marks you out as morally bankrupt and means your enemies have even more reason to attack you? Why not put that alongside your ticking bomb and see how many chuckles you have?
Rachel North puts it like this:
Last month, Foreign Secretary David Milliband finally said that the war on terror is wrong, then this month he promptly found himself neck-highin the bloody aftermath of that particular eight-year demented orgy of self-justifying lies and violence, when appearing to attempt to hide the evidence of our government and security services' complicity in the torture of a British resident. Milliband actually claimed to a high court that there was a 'threat' by the US to withdraw co-operation in intelligence matters if documents about Guantanamo detainee Binyam Mohammed were revealed, then back-tracked, leading to furious demands that the documents about the torture be released after all.
Well, of course they should be. And whilst we are at it, let's get all the horrors and injustices out into the open, have a proper independent inquiry into it all, apologise profusely, say 'never again' and start anew, turn over a new leaf and try to learn some lessons from this horrendous mess. Nobody can say there isn't the appetite for it, and it certainly wouldn't kill us to try it. But they'd never have the guts to try, this government, I expect, even as the tortured Binyam Mohammed steps back onto the soil of the UK, the land he took refuge in as a teenager and shames them all by having refused to die quietly of madness and despair thousands of miles away.
I don't know what he was planning when he left the UK a few years ago. If there was evidence enough to charge him with a crime when he was picked up and then give him a fair trial, then that is what should have happened. There is no excuse for - and no point in - torturing him, or anyone else. None. Ever. Torture is a complete waste of time as well as degrading and damaging us all when we condone it, or outsource it to people who will wield scalpels and tighten ropes whilst asking questions our spies prepared earlier. I can say this, and I wish I didn't have to say it, but when you are being tortured, tied up, humiliated, beaten, put in fear of your life and your sanity, you will say and do absolutely anything to get it to stop. You will say anything, tell any lie. That is the way it is and the way it will always be.
Torture ruins everyone. The people who suffer it, and the people who do it. It's all very well to try and defend it with your ticking bomb scenarios and your Jack Bauers and Harry Callaghans doing the noble torture all in a good cause, but that's not the way it ever actually is, and that's not the truth, and it demeans everyone to pretend that's what is really going on. Torture is wrong - always wrong. It feels almost ridiculous to have to say these things, that there is a debate to be had at all, but apparently there is. Call me stupid, naive, whatever, I don't care. But don't give me this 'ticking bomb' bullshit any more.
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November 9th, 2010 - 14:20
It’s only interesting as an example of consequentialism’s exposure to the reductio. (There’s a sentence that must have been tiresome to read!) One could just as easily say, “What if battering a small child to death with a lump of frozen haddock could save the people of Chad?”
November 9th, 2010 - 15:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58
Watch.. just WATCH
November 9th, 2010 - 18:08
Let me say first of all that I agree with you that torture is wrong.
However your insistance on using Jack Bauer as evidence of pop culture defending torture really bothered me. The writers of 24 were not saying ‘up with torture.’ They showed what a goverment agent would be likely to do. And, as another 24 fan once put it, Bauer in general is just a not an example of a good person. He’s an anti-hero, plain and simple. One can write characters doing things in their screenplays they themselves do not agree with.
November 9th, 2010 - 18:10
Then why is his torture always shown to be effective?
November 10th, 2010 - 09:47
Because it’s a work of TV fiction. It’s a lazy, dramatic device to move the plot forward.
November 11th, 2010 - 05:31
Fiction has effects in real life:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/02/torture_nation.html
November 9th, 2010 - 18:48
I’m surprised the ticking time bomb scenario is even used at all. I mean even if you have the actual bomb planter in custody he/she will only have to lie and misdirect long enough for the bomb to go off anyway.
So then you’ll have tortured someone and achieved bugger all. Epic Fail all around really.
November 9th, 2010 - 19:25
Remember though without Dirty Harry we wouldn’t have the following scene:
Mayor Barkley: Oh Drebin. I don’t want any more trouble like you had last year on the southside. Understand? That’s my policy.
Frank Drebin: Yes, well. When I see five weirdos dressed in togas stabbing a guy in the middle of the park in plain view of a hundred people, I shoot the bastards, that’s my policy.
Mayor Barkley: That was a Shakespeare in the Park production of Julius Caesar, you moron! You killed five actors! Good ones!
November 10th, 2010 - 01:08
Frankly, the torture apologists ought to have the courage of their convictions. Are you sure torturing someone will save lives? Really really sure? Sure enough to risk the guy going free and you going to jail?
You know, Dirty Harry knows that this might damage the case, that he might be fired, sued or prosecuted and he does it anyway. He doesn’t try to claim it’s not torture or that it’s a legal grey area.
Of course he’s too late.
November 10th, 2010 - 07:04
Ah, Frank. (It’s the “good ones” that turns what I remember as a telegraphed gag into one I fondly remember.)
November 10th, 2010 - 08:13
the way I see it is the people that are attacking us, they hate our values and our way of life, so everytime we ignore those values they win, every terror suspect tortured thats a victory for al qaeda
November 10th, 2010 - 11:35
I read somewhere that evidence gained under torture is almost always unreliable anyway. Don’t know how true that is but it’s nice to believe and feel self righteous about.
November 10th, 2010 - 14:15
well exactly, of course it is. i would prob admit to anything if someone was torturing me. hence why they torture people.
it is shocking that this is allowed to go on. it shames all of us. and like dan said, every time we stoop so low as to torture someone, we are losing this ‘war’ because we are giving up our morality, our knowledge of what is right and wrong.
well said anton, really. and everyone else.
November 10th, 2010 - 12:02
If, as soi-disant “President” Twig – or rather his legal advisers – waterboarding is not torture then he should be the first to volunteer for, say, 183 sessions of it to prove it’s actually more akin to playing with a litter of fluffy kittens. How about it, George?
Thought not.
November 11th, 2010 - 05:39
John Donne, nearly 400 years ago:
“If the Judge knew that he were innocent, he should suffer nothing. If he knew he were guilty, he should not suffer torture. But because the Judge is ignorant and knows nothing, therefore the prisoner must be racked and tortured and mangled.”
Ulpian, nearly 2000 years ago:
“Torture is a difficult and deceptive thing for the strong will resist and the weak will say anything to end the pain”.
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/08/hbc-90000907