Deutschland vor! « Enemies of Reason

5Jul/1026

Deutschland vor!

I've noticed something funny over the past few days. Not just in myself, though it's there too, but among other England fans and English folk I know as well. I want Germany to win the World Cup.

I say it's something 'funny' because the lazy, cliched stereotype of English people, and England football fans - one which regrettably gets dragged out by my so-called comrades on the political left - is that we're a bunch of knuckledragging xenophobic idiots who would rather cut our own nuts off than see the Germans win. I sigh when I read that kind of candyfloss, because I'm afraid it's really rather out of date. It's been refreshing to tune into 606 and hear England football fans say they'd like to see Germany win, and feel the same thing myself.

Not just because they beat England and it makes our crushing humiliation a little less damning - though it does, a tiny bit - but because they deserve to win it. I'd be happy if the Netherlands got revenge for 74 in the final, I guess, and I wouldn't mind Spain winning either - it's only Uruguay who are the villains of the piece thanks to that handball against Ghana... and even then you have to admire the way their players have fanned out across the globe to learn their craft (avoiding, it might be noted, "The Best League In The World (tm)" as they've done it).

But... no. I'd like to see the Germans win most of all. They set a good example (apart from the odd bit of Klinsmann-like diving here and there), play attacking football, play as a real team greater than the sum of their not inconsiderable parts, and clearly love what they're doing. It's the excitement of young players playing with freedom - as opposed to the clunky creaking Premiership stars licking their wounds in their Baby Bentleys back home. Some twerps have been saying they're glad Germany won because somehow the PC Brigade scuppered England, but they're idiots who should be cheesegratered to death, quite frankly, the usual attention-seeking parochial planks - and they also ignore the multicultural German side, with the likes of Ozil, Boateng, Cacau and Podolski playing their parts throughout the tournament.

It's time for those stupid thinly-veiled references to the war - witness several tabloid headlines in the build-up to England's football lesson a week ago - to be consigned to the dustbin. Time to grow up, and I think most of us have - not all, of course, but I'd like to hope that the "Two world wars, one world cup" jingoistic drivel has gone the way of the two-footed tackle. I think we can be a bit more mature now, and say that the Bundesliga is something to admire and be envious of, despite our own league's self-proclaimed status as the best anywhere ever; we can either learn the hard lessons from being outplayed by Germany, or we can sink as they move ever further away from us.

It's fun to have rivalries, of course, and that's part of the appeal of the World Cup. One of the good things about the tournament - which its detractors don't get, I think - is that it can heal old wounds, not just reopen them. And besides, they beat bloody Argentina, so they're all right by me*. Come on Germany!

* This is a joke. Get it? A joke.

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Very Bored in Catalunya
July 5th, 2010 - 18:01

Couldn’t agree more. If we can’t win it then I want the team that plays the best football to win it, and this year that’s Germany hands down.

I am comforted by the fact that they got a better result against the Argies then they did against us though.

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George Allwell
July 5th, 2010 - 18:20

Ballack getting injured, as stated by prominent German legends (I’m crap at spelling Franz and Lothar I think), has been a massive blessing in disguise. And a bigger lesson for us. The pace of the team, the fluidity, organisation, skill, clinical finishing is immense; although when Alan Hansen still refuses to accept they can defend – “Any team with someone as slow as Mertesacker cannot win the World Cup…” or something like that, you just know they will end up as champions.

“…but they’re idiots who should be cheesegratered to death, quite frankly”

That would be painful, and should be suggested on the new YourFreedom website as a punishment for any non-qualification at future tournaments for any players who fail to achieve a rating of 8 or more on Capello’s soon to be resurrected commercial venture. I’m convinced that is what we need.

Oh, and if we can secure a contract to make the next ball, that might complete the picture.

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Nikki
July 5th, 2010 - 18:23

I supported Germany from the start. You’re all just jumping on the bandwagon you sheep!

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Akela
July 5th, 2010 - 21:27

With many VFL Bochum fans having adopted my beloved Barnet as a second team over the last few years (honestly, it’s true, and a bizzare tale to boot) and the lovely Mrs Akela being a German/English translator I have been forced to adopt Germany as a second team from the start.

I’m quite looking forward to the semis!

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AlexMagd
July 6th, 2010 - 00:09

What I (unexpectedly) loved about the German team this time around was how professional they were – they just got on with it. Argentina and Brazil have both been flinging themselves to the floor at the slightest provocation, even when well in the lead. There’s just some good sportsmanship on display on the German side – something England haven’t always been good at either – and it’s surprisingly nice

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Smogo
July 6th, 2010 - 11:30

Try telling that to the idiots who booed Missy Elliott (and shouted “Fuck off” and “Fuck Germany”, and threw bottles) at the Wireless Festival on Saturday when she and her dancers came on stage wearing Deutschland tracksuits. It wasn’t just a few people booing and shouting; it was so many of the twats that they actually drowned out the music.

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feminazi
July 6th, 2010 - 22:17

we’re a bunch of knuckledragging xenophobic idiots who would rather cut our own nuts off than see the Germans win

yes, because all your readers are men, all football fans are men, all knuckledragging xenophobic idiots are men

~sigh~

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- Anton Vowl
  July 7th, 2010 - 10:00
  
  I didn’t say that at all. But since I’m a man, am I not allowed to have testicles? Why don’t you fuck off and find a website with real woman hatred rather than pestering me?
  
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  - feminazi
    July 8th, 2010 - 16:10
    
    I’m sorry, I didn’t realise you – as a right-on kinda guy! – were above criticism. My mistake. Silly me for thinking that language (“we’re a bunch of”) that excludes over half the population has a pernicious and damaging effect, wherever it occurs.
    
    And there was no need to be so bloody rude either.
    
    ( REPLY )
    - Anton Vowl
      July 8th, 2010 - 16:58
      
      Look, I’m not above criticism, where it’s warranted. But the odd gender-specific bit of language does not a misogynist make. And it’s not a pernicious effect. I am including me in the we so therefore I make it masculine; if I were a woman I would make it feminine. And that’s all there is to it. That really is it. But that won’t be good enough for you, will it? You’ve decided that you’ve spotted some kind of gender bias in what I’ve written, so therefore I must be called out on it. For which, many congratulations. Well done. I hope you spend the same amount of time bothering all the people who devote their entire lives to hating women. Been watching the debate in the House of Commons on rape anonymity for suspects? But no, fuck that – let’s piss off some fucking blogger somewhere, that’ll make everything so much better, won’t it? And no, I’m not sorry for being rude. Not at all. Never have been, never will. Don’t care. I care when I cause genuine offence and when it’s warranted, and those who have written to me with such concerns can testify. But no. Not on this.
      
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      - feminazi
        July 8th, 2010 - 22:55
        
        Language is meaningless! It doesn’t shape reality, despite what those damned linguists keep on telling us. Insults based on inherent traits hold no power. Sexist jokes are harmless. (Richard Littlejohn would be on your side so you *must* be right! It’s political correctness gone mad!)
        
        If you mean “Anton” when you say “we”, don’t say “we” – it’s kinda confusing to your readers. “We” is inclusive – I can’t believe I even have to spell this out. And if you say “we” but in such a way as to exclude those of your readers that don’t have nuts, then yeah, it’s exclusionary (like, duh).
        
        And your completely OTT rage when challenged is… pretty interesting, really. Why defend to the death what to you was probably just a throwaway phrase rather than saying, yeah, I see your point? It seems rather irrational and somewhat disproportionate, to say the very least.
        
        So I say again, have you heard of unexamined privilege? Because that was a shining example of it, right there.
        
        And it’s not a pernicious effect.
        
        I beg to differ. Despite what you think, despite what you might tell yourself, it really, really is.
      - Anton Vowl
        July 9th, 2010 - 07:58
        
        No. Troll.
      - hellblazer
        July 9th, 2010 - 08:28
        
        This retort seems unattached to whichever comment it’s addressed to…
  - feminazi
    July 8th, 2010 - 16:13
    
    (P.S. Ever heard of unexamined privilege?)
    
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    - Jared Earle
      July 8th, 2010 - 17:17
      
      Wow, way to fall off the trolley. That was quite spectacular fauxrage, Feminazi.
      
      I’m all for stamping out blatant sexism where I see it, but you’re doing your cause no good by wasting your strength and effort here. In fact, you’re doing yourself a disservice and draw ire instead of support.
      
      Nicely done.
      
      ( REPLY )
    - hellblazer
      July 9th, 2010 - 08:27
      
      Regarding this comment – I’m having trouble making out beneath the biting sarcasm how frequently you *read* AV’s blog. Because it seems to me that you’re pouncing on his purported error and inferring from it and his replies that he must hold views X, Y and Z, which I’m *fairly* sure he doesn’t.
      
      [As for linguistic analysis, what's it saying about me, eh? I suspect one could get quite a lot right about me from reading such tea leaves, but the errors might be interesting...]
      
      I think snarking at the author of a blog post and then professing surprise when he or she bites back is also a bit disingenuous (and if you know AV’s past blogging, don’t you think one could see why he might not react with sheepish “that’s me told then”?).
      
      Other random thoughts: privilege is not a linear order; and the norms of discourse surely depend on the settings and context in which it takes place. I see from your link that you’re happy with, or are comfortable with, a mode of discourse where
      
      being called out for displaying a racially/sexually denigrating behaviour is not (or at least not necessarily) an accusation that one is thereby “a racist” or “a sexist” – it is a special form of reality check, the privilege check. Checking one’s own unexamined privileges as a result is an opportunity for self-awareness, an opportunity to become a better ally, an opportunity for self-growth.
      
      However, blithely assuming that the recipient on whom such an opportunity is bestowed will not take affront seems … discourteous. (Like Graun readers/journos writing to Clark County, to use a tangential analogy from recent history.) If the aim is to change people’s behaviour, rather than to assert superiority, then *why* go in with studs up?
      
      ( REPLY )
    - hellblazer
      July 9th, 2010 - 08:39
      
      Interesting link, by the way. I think comment 17 and the rejoinder to it at 19 are well worth a read by anyone still observing this part of the comment thread. I’m not saying (yet) which of the two I agree more with, though…
      
      ( REPLY )
- hellblazer
  July 8th, 2010 - 21:10
  
  Full quote:
  
  because the lazy, cliched stereotype of English people, and England football fans – one which regrettably gets dragged out by my so-called comrades on the political left – is that we’re a bunch of knuckledragging xenophobic idiots who would rather cut our own nuts off than see the Germans win
  
  In other words, this is the stereotype of English football fans. And it’s fair to say that the stereotype is that most such fans are drunken, boorish and male. It is even, depending where you go to watch your football, not widlly off the mark.
  
  Forget privilege; nothing about its presence or absence precludes willingness to parse a sentence, surely? (My brief brush with the copy-editing side of publishing suggests the gender balance there is actually quite healthy.)
  
  ( REPLY )
- hellblazer
  July 8th, 2010 - 21:18
  
  On rereading (again), couldn’t the offending part of AV’s original post be smoothed over by changing the words “is that we’re a bunch” to “is of a bunch”?
  
  Also, what AV said: when I was a man, I spake as a man, and all that.
  
  ( REPLY )
Jonas
July 6th, 2010 - 23:14

As a person unfortunate enough to live in Germany, the Germans winning is the last thing I want. We’re already getting enough disturbing nationalism and barbaric us-versus-them tribalism with things as they are, and the Germans don’t really need another reason to think they are the master race. (If they lose it will, of course, be someone else’s fault. Probably the evil referee or some other foreigner.) I don’t want to know what the Bild and all the other tabloids will come up with if Germany wins.

…none of which has anything to do with the team and their abilities as players.

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- Arthur Eld
  July 7th, 2010 - 10:08
  
  You may be living in Germany, but obviously you weren’t paying attention. “Master race”? Pffft. I recommend inventing one or two new stereotypes, an update would make you look less like a total idiot.
  
  To the author and the other positive commenters: Thank you! Being supported by our biggest rivals is a fantastic thing and it shows that no-one beats the Brits in sportsmannship.
  
  Greetings from Germany!
  
  ( REPLY )
  - Jonas
    July 7th, 2010 - 15:05
    
    I wasn’t paying attention? Oh, all that “we’re gonna smash everyone” and “we’re the best” stuff is just harmless nationalism, in a country in which nationalism has always been entirely harmless. Right? I shouldn’t be disturbed by people painting the German flag on their faces and screaming about defeating their enemies? Because that’s really the best of human impulses?
    
    (Ask those two Italians who got shot over a soccer disagreement about that.)
    
    Oh no, have I gone against the official party line? Have I broken a law by using sarcasm? Have I suggested that it’s not “finally OK to be proud to be German again” because being proud about where you happened to be born is never a particularly good idea?
    
    Well, I’m so sorry, but despite the fact that I have absolutely nothing against the team (as I noted), I do believe it is (still) my right to find displays of fanatic tribalism to be abhorrent. Enjoy the game, by all means, but the filth that’s coming to the surface because of the World Cup is exactly that – filth – and I’d rather not have to live in filth.
    
    ( REPLY )
    - Arthur Eld
      July 7th, 2010 - 17:55
      
      Wait, are you seriously saying that German assholes exist? Unpossible! Our population of 82 million is entirely perfect! Oops, I think I also broke the no sarcasm law.
      
      So seriously: Sure, we do have nationalistic asswipes, if I’m not mistaken they exist everywhere (haven’t I heard of relatively good results for the BNP?). But what you did was insinuating ALL Germans are like that. Even worse, you said “the Germans don’t really need another reason to think they are the master race”. That, my “friend”, means you’re not paying attention, ’cause the overwhelming majority here does NOT think like that. In fact, what you call nationalism is 99 out of 100 times patriotism – love for the own country, especially in football, celebrating rivalries with England and the Netherlands, but no hate for anyone.
      
      Painting flags on their faces? Whoa, now that must be something only the Germans do… wait, no, actually people in every country do that.
      
      Finally, that might be a misunderstanding due to lacking language skills on your part, the general narrative here isn’t “defeating enemies” but “beating opponents”, it’s not “finally OK to be proud to be German again” but “there’s nothing wrong with being German” – it’s harmless sports patriotism. Now sure, as I said you can always find idiots who fit in the pattern with which you have described all Germans, but they’re a tiny minority.
      
      So, dislike the Germans all you want, but don’t make up bullshit in an attempt to rationalize the viewpoint you probably wouldn’t dare to utter if it was about, say, blacks, Pakistanis or whatever. Just say “I hate them, no matter what they do” – fine by me.
      
      Now I gotta go watch the game against a strong opponent which is to be respected for their abilities.
      
      ( REPLY )
      - Jonas
        July 8th, 2010 - 09:04
        
        I wrote a long and detailed response to this, which promptly caused the site to break. I don’t really have the time to retype all of it. Some main points:
        
        1) It’s fascinating to me that my disagreement immediately labels me as a foreigner to you. Maybe I should check my passport again.
        2) The very fact that you speak of “celebrating rivalries” tells me that we live in different universes. Since when are rivalries something to celebrate? I don’t believe in us versus them.
        3) I don’t see anything harmless about the nationalistic and martial discourse of national superiority that festers around the World Cup. Neither do I see anything harmless about implying that we are all part of some great national collective identity that we must support.
        4) Given that “our” army is currently busy butchering civilians in third-world countries, I find it perfectly valid to be disturbed by people painting the German flag on their faces and screaming about defeating their enemies/opponents/rivals.
        5) I feel the same about barbaric tribalism in other countries, though I will admit Germany’s history and politics intensify the feeling.
      - Arthur Eld
        July 8th, 2010 - 11:53
        
        I’m guilty of assuming you’re not a German. How could I forget there are so many here to whom black red and gold equals the swastika? Silly me.
        
        Rivalries in sports are something to celebrate, because it’s much more interesting to win against a year-long rival, and it sucks more to lose against one. If you really have no clue about this absolutely normal thing in sports, I pity you for it and ask myself why you felt the urge to comment on a blog entry about sports in the first place. You don’t belive in us vs them? Then you don’t believe in sports, ’cause that’s what it’s all about. There’s only one team that can win the world cup, not 32.
        
        I’m really curious where you’ve seen “nationalistic and martial discourse of national superiority”. Not even “Bild” goes there. Sure, they’ll write stuff like “We’ll beat them” (the horror!), but I haven’t heard about headlines like “Deutschland über alles!”, “10 reasons why the German race is superior to the British” or similar bullshit. Not even our tabloids go anywhere near that, let alone the respectable newspapers. Oh, and if you’re German: We ARE all part of some great national collective identity. You mustn’t support that, our team or whatever – it’s a free country. But you can’t do anything against the fact that you’re a part of this nation, no matter if you love or hate it. Sorry ’bout that.
        
        You know, I do have some understanding for your anti German self-hate; we have done horrible things in the past. I felt similar when I was 16. But dude: Grow up already. Learn to see the negative alongside with the positive, accept shades of grey and don’t exaggerate things ridiculously just to make them fit into your pre-existing patterns of perception. And don’t confuse sports with war.
        
        @Anton: Sorry for spamming your blog with this. I’ll stop now.
Mr Larrington
July 7th, 2010 - 10:14

Bild has already found this: http://tinyurl.com/2v2dsyf (SFW)

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