HYS backlash: it’s been coming
Sometimes it takes a friend to tell you something that you need to know - when you're walking around with paint-stripping body odour, or your flies are undone, for example. Your enemies won't tell you because they'll be chortling at your misfortune, and everyone else just will be too polite to tell you - but will look down on you all the same.
And it's from the position of being a massive fan of the BBC that I have to question the relevance and value of Have Your Say. Not because I don't think people should have their say - they should - but what does the current format achieve, other than being a great big jam sandwich next to an anthill? What does it do, other than give undue prominence to the views of bigots? And at a time when the BBC is going to have to justify every single piece of its output, how is our public discourse improved by having discussions which frequently get overwhelmed by extreme and offensive views?
Let's get one argument out of the way to begin with. Let's not imagine that people's freedom of speech is only represented by their ability to type whatever they want on the internet, and more specifically on a BBC forum. It isn't. No-one is clamping down on anyone's freedom of speech by denying them 'the right' to be offensive and deeply unpleasant. There is no right for people to use taxpayers' cash to spout views that make other people upset. And Auntie would not be being a massive evil censor by denying them that 'right'.
The question in the particular instance I mentioned earlier isn't awfully offensive, in my view. The debate, when taken in isolation and ignoring the context of how HYS is regularly taken over by views that you could consider to be bigoted and prejudiced, isn't either. But you can't ignore the context. The context is one in which people seek an opportunity to Speak You're Branes - and often come out with complete tosh.
You might say to me, look, it's not for anyone to decide what's tosh and what isn't, and who are you to come in and save the world? What you find offensive might not be offensive to others; what you find intelligent might be offensive to others. But that's half the story, because there is always editorial control. As soon as you stop people from swearing, or being off-topic, there's editorial control. As soon as you stop people using certain derogatory terms, that's editorial control. As soon as you decide that certain sentiments are too unpleasant to be broadcast, that's editorial control.
We don't live in a world without editorial control - and this blog is no different, by the way. I decide what comments are published, which can be a pain when there are a lot, but I prefer it that way. I let myself down on one occasion when I had a lot of comments about one particular columnist (you can probably guess who) and someone said they should be kicked to death for being a necrophiliac. Pressed for time, I let the comment through without checking, but luckily found it later and deleted it. I wouldn't be happy with having it on here - that's my decision. It's no use pretending my personal weblog is some big chalkboard for everyone else, and nothing to do with me, because that's not the case.
I know there are some who advocate everyone being allowed to say whatever they like all the time, but I'm not quite of that view. I wouldn't want someone to call my mum a whore, or say I was a paedophile, for example. I think most people wouldn't. Freedom of speech does not trump everything else, in my opinion. Which isn't to say that if one person is offended by something, it should be banned straight away - there are degrees of these things, and it's not an 'all or nothing' situation. Alongside the right to speak your mind, there's also the right not to be offended - not just by private individuals or companies, but especially from organisations we are funding through taxation. Similar issues were raised when Nick Griffin turned up on Question Time, but it was right to put him on. BBC HYS is different. It is like the panel is made up of five Nick Griffins, with another 200-odd in the audience.
Which brings me back to Auntie, and Have Your Say. It's sad, but I don't think the Great British Public can be trusted to have a balanced debate on these issues when it's a self-selecting sample. That skews it and makes it not only unrepresentative but misleadingly unrepresentative. It's not up to those who don't want gay people to be locked up, left to die on islands or killed to go onto the BBC HYS and counterbalance the more vile views on the discussion, because by the time many of these debates have got going, they've already been piled on. Remember when someone shouted "Bundle!" at school and everyone crushed the poor bastard at the bottom of the pile till he couldn't breathe? That's what happens when there's a new HYS question. It's kind of already happened by the time the itchy-fingered bigots have piled on via their keyboards. Any halfway reasonable voices are already behind the curve.
This has been coming for a long time. I don't know what the solution really is, but it's not like today's question came out of the blue. I feel sorry for those people firefighting with the HYS moderation, because it must be a tough job - like those people who screen out the slightly more ripe contributors from radio phone-ins or stop complete lunacy from appearing in newspaper and magazine letters pages. But HYS is like a phone-in where quite a lot of the nutcases have been allowed on air, or a letters page where the green crayon submissions have been waved through. It doesn't quite work at being balanced, or representative of the readership.
There's also the issue of the BBC brand. Is it enhanced by such bigoted and offensive views being broadcast, all in the name of lively debate? Do we learn anything from these discussions? Or are they all too often being taken over by people with a particular type of mindset? If so, is that such a good thing, or are our tax pounds - which I happily contribute to the wonderful and generally sparkling BBC - being used to fund a misleadingly unrepresentative broadcast of poisonous and offensive opinions? And if that's the case, what is to be done?
*update* Now the title of the debate has been changed to "Should Uganda debate gay execution?"
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December 16th, 2009 - 16:28
If I could be a pain and widen the issue, I think a lot of message boards and comments sections on the internet are disproportionately receiving comments from extreme right wingers. My worry is that politicians and decision makers will veer to the right believing the comments are representative of the public. Its very unlikely the BBC will withdraw HYS, at least for the reasons you gave. They would be terrified of being labelled anti-democratic. Perhaps the best course of action is to counter the arguments of the bigots in the comments sections themselves. It does infuriate them, which is a consolation.
December 16th, 2009 - 16:50
A couple of points –
There's one radio station – I've no idea which it is, but cabbies tend to listen to it a lot – which is the aural equivalent of a Littlejohn (or similar idiot's) column.
Also it's interesting to note that a lot of the pro-gay-death comments on the Uganda HYS section are from Africa itself, rather than the UK.
In conclusion, HYS is a pile of excrement.
December 16th, 2009 - 18:50
Karlos would be thinking of TalkSport.
Believe it or not, it's actually become more moderate in recent times since they've parted company with John Gaunt and James Whale.
December 16th, 2009 - 19:15
I read your earlier piece and was absolutely gobsmacked that the BBC actually asked the question(Now changed) to begin with. The people at 'Have Your Say' must be aware that a significant proportion of the people who contribute to their debates are right wing bigots so it seems to me bizarre that they should actively encourage them by asking a question that they must have known would generate odious responses.
I'm totally in favour of freedom of speech and reckon that the only way to counter the bigotry expressed on sites such as HYS is to express one's views too. Sitting in a chair, reading the resposes and getting angry about them achieves absolutely nothing. It's up to people like 'us' to tip the balance the other way so as to avoid letting anybody, who does even rudimentary research on public opinion, run away with the, in my view, false impression that these opinions are representative of the British public at large. Also when people like 'us' say nothing, we allow these bigots to encourage other like-minded bigots to suppose that their views are acceptable.
December 17th, 2009 - 01:37
I've read a few claims that the BNP actively manipulate things like HYS, organising themselves on forums and sockpuppeting and whatnot to flood comments with far-right views and then recommending them en masse. Anyone know if there's any truth in this? Or is it just a case of there really being a lot of bigots in Britain – or at least the subset of Britain that regularly posts on HYS and newspaper comment threads – and people just blaming the BNP because they'd prefer to believe otherwise?
December 17th, 2009 - 11:45
The sad fact is that the BBC, bless it, is in a perpetual state of catch-22.
If the BBC censors offensive or spiteful opinions, that gives the Mail and the Sun an excuse to strap on their Doc Martens and stick the boot in, claiming that the BBC is gagging the majority of licence-fee payers in favour of the mealy-mouthed values of the liberal left.
If the BBC doesn't censor offensive or spiteful opinions, that gives the Mail and the Sun an excuse to strap on their Doc Martens and stick the boot in, claiming that the BBC is offending the majority of licence-fee payers in favour of the nasty, intolerant values of the extreme-right.
Difficult to win. Depending on which agenda they wish to push on any given day, the anti-BBC press will use either argument to undermine the Beeb in any way it can.
It'll be even more difficult when Cameron becomes PM and turns the British media into a foaming, right-wing free-for-all, as if the only thing the UK really needs is its own Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity.
Can you imagine the likes of John Gaunt and James Whale being given a free rein to say whatever the hell they like on the airwaves…?
*shudders*
December 17th, 2009 - 22:41
Interestingly enough, Daily Mail reported this too but no comments were showing on the article for hours after the article appeared. Now, it's gone, or at least despite ferocious googling and searching the DM site, I cannot find it. Methinks that the sheer volume of vile bullshit pouring out through the comments meant that DM chickened out.